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Published Sep 26, 21
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I want to give you all a break for a moment and transform to Mr. Swartz. Normally, we would have had two panels, however we didn't know how the Senate would certainly be operating today, so in an initiative to make certain we obtained through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you point out in your testimony and also your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda likewise pierces financial institution privacy as well as supplies a mechanism for us getting the details we require. There have been some mutual lawful support treaties which contain stipulations related straight to sharing bank records or other monetary details.

That was an arrangement that was drafted and taken on in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, stipulation's possible for the requesting party asking for event information as info whether an account exists in the requested country, nation in the case of instance E.U., one of the requested member statesParticipant After that, the demand, if there is a recognition of an account, must be complied with up via a conventional mutual legal assistance treaty.

And with regard to Bermuda, our record of cooperation has been great. We believe that the record we have on the production of documents, consisting of bank documents, is such that we are certain that the arrangements included in this common lawful support treaty, which do call for participation on the production of documents, will certainly be adequate to make sure that we obtain the documents we need for our financial examinations as well as other investigations.

A few other MLATs additionally permit immediate, non-written form requests to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it should remain in written kind. Any type of reason that arrangement was not included in this agreement? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Common Lawful Assistance Treaty does require requests in written form, it was the judgment of the mediators that it was enough that, in this instance, with respect to Bermuda, we would certainly have the ability to acquire quick actions to our demands and also provide such reactions to Bermuda's requests, particularly due to the fact that we have a method already established that will certainly proceed, our company believe, under the treaty of being able to convey those requests with e-mail or with fax.

Senator Cardin. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda stood up to that due to the fact that they desired to ensure that the demands were clear as well as in a much more formal means. In the settlements, it additionally ended up being clear that they accepted that such request could be made by fax or by email. The real concern they were worried regarding was not finding a quick ways to make a demand, but really simply taking oral requests off the table.

So we're certain that we have actually got the ways in position that we can make immediate requests of them in such a way that will be efficient. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I might include, actually, while it is an advantage to be able to make oral requests, in technique, it's very rare that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. My primary issue is just, in immediate matters, that it's not delayed. And also with modern-day communication, it seems to me that can possibly be dealt with. I'm much more worried concerning financial institution documents. Mr. Johnson, do have any comments on the bank records problem? Mr. Johnson. Once more, not particularly on the bank issue.

The difference in between being able to do an oral request or having the ability to utilize one of these other extremely fast ways, we believe, is not consequential. Senator Cardin. There have actually been some issues increased regarding the competence of Bermuda legislation relative to forfeits of proceeds as well as instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Certainly, the development of forfeiture legislation is a crucial and also dynamic matter. We've seen a variety of changes throughout the years, consisting of here in the United States. Yet the Common Lawful Assistance Treaty in Write-up 17 does obligate Bermuda to give support to the United States in process connecting to forfeiture of earnings and instrumentalities of criminal activity, to the extent allowed by the legislation of Bermuda.

We've had 2 instances of effective demands for restraint and also loss of assets. Both circumstances were a success as well as we had the ability to get the funds. As a basic matter, aid is available under the laws of Bermuda, as well as I do think that is essential to anxiety, with respect to cold, seizing, and also limiting properties, including for issues associating with terrorism as well as terrorism funding.

Yet it needs to be kept in mind that loss assistance is not restricted to what is permitted under Bermuda's residential legislation. With respect to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not waive a particular instrumentality of nondrug offenses, because that power does not exist locally. But once more, that's limited to agencies in nondrug infraction cases.

Legislator Cardin. In the Bermuda arrangement, there's an arrangement that is not strange to us, where Bermuda can refute collaboration in capital instances.

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Are we hindered as a result of that or exists a method which we have the ability to cooperate under this treaty, even in those situations? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we believe and also we hope we still would be able to cooperate. Bermuda showed, as well as has recommended the United States, that it schedules the right to reject aid in resources instances where the sentence consists of a feasible execution, counting on the-- contrary to the important public law arrangement of Short article 3 of the convention.

We have that experience with other nations that have actually placed similar analyses on the shared legal support duties, and also we've been able to function out plans in a number of cases that allow us to obtain evidence or go over whether the evidence is substantial sufficient to go onward with some kind of more actions being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I can just include in that, among the reasons this treaty took as long it did to bargain and also conclude is since it was necessary to us to ensure that there had not been a specific limitation on assistance in resources situations in the treaty itself.

Swartz associated to you. Which means we assume that aids keep the principle that is necessary to us, that such collaboration must be available, irrespective of the type of instance. And also we believe this has actually additionally substantiated with some other countries, where despite similar worries regarding participation in funding situations, they have, for instance, been able to provide help to the nonpenalty phase of a test or an additional celebration examination.

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Legislator Cardin. However they do hold the right under this treaty to reject cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for death sentence? Mr. Johnson. Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not give assistance if are contrary to public law or their vital rate of interests, and also they have told us that they translate that to allow them, in capital punishment cases, to work out that.

Senator Cardin. I understand that. I just wanted to make it clear that they would certainly not be an offense of the treaty. We comprehend their interpretation, that if there was an instance pending here that we required their aid, where, plainly, the district attorneys were looking for the capital punishment, Bermuda might choose not to work together under this treaty (foreign tax credit).

Swartz. If I can claim, Mr. Chairman, significantly, the treaty would certainly need, because this would certainly be a rejection under Post 3 of the treaty, that initially there had to be assessments with the United States, prior to that denial can go onward. As well as I believe that's an important element of the settlement that Mr.

Rather than having an explicit provision, this is among a set of problems under which aid may be denied after consultation, as well as, to name a few points, that there need to be factor to consider as to whether help can be given, based on such conditions as the asked for country considers necessary. As well as our experience because regard has been that we oftentimes can discover proper guarantees to permit proof to be created, a minimum of for first analysis of the importance of evidence in the instance overall.

And also I think that would certainly be practical for us to have that info in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. foreign tax credit. We 'd be thankful to provide that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest task below, because this agreement was formerly accepted by this board. As I claimed in my opening, we accepted it far too late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any type of significant changes in our financial investment relationship with Rwanda since last November when you provided testament on this treaty? What we have seen because last November is a rise in United States investment in Rwanda, as well as I can give you a few instances.

Additionally, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open a significant resort in Kigali. As well as, also, Marriott Hotels is entering to promote the country's growing friendliness industry. I would certainly state that, provided this pattern of increased investment, that it is important that the securities be managed for them.

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investors. Legislator Cardin. I thank you for that (foreign tax credit). You additionally discussed the reality that the United States is discovering other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you mentioned one other nation. I think we have five existing reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply show us other countries that the United States has shown passion in working out treaties? Ms.

Legislator Cardin. Thanks. I have actually been informed by the team that I ought to ask the inquiry of whether the management still sustains the Us senate passage of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Legislator Cardin.

I think that finishes the questioning. We might have some extra concerns for the document. As you know, the document remains open for 1 day, so you obtain a break. That's a rather quick turn-around time for this board. I do appreciate your perseverance with the committee and also thank you very much for your statement today.

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Solution. As laid out below, we would love to give updated information on reported U.S. investment activity in Rwanda. Apart from these updates, the solutions supplied by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress continue to be exact. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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As well as I think that would certainly be valuable for us to have that information in this board. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest task here, because this agreement was formerly accepted by this board. As I said in my opening, we accepted it too late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any type of considerable adjustments in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda considering that last November when you offered testament on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen because last November is a rise in United States investment in Rwanda, as well as I can provide you a couple of instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major resort in Kigali. As well as, also, Marriott Hotels is going in to facilitate the country's growing friendliness sector. I would certainly say that, provided this pattern of raised investment, that it is crucial that the defenses be afforded for them.

financiers. Legislator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You likewise pointed out the reality that the United States is checking out other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I think you discussed one other nation. I believe we have 5 existing reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show us various other nations that the United States has shown interest in working out treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thanks. I've been informed by the staff that I ought to ask the inquiry of whether the management still sustains the Senate approval of the Rwanda treaty, because it was held over from the last Congress. For the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Senator Cardin.

I assume that completes the examining. I do value your perseverance with the board as well as thank you extremely much for your testimony today.

As established out listed below, we would like to provide updated info on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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